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Roger T. Pipe Before we start, I want to thank you for taking the time to do this. In all the time I’ve been involved in reviewing adult movies, you are by far the most requested interview subject. On behalf of myself and the many readers, thank you.
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John Stagliano You’re very welcome.
Roger T. Pipe Is there any particular place you would like to start?
John Stagliano Just get me talking and we’ll cover everything.
Roger T. Pipe Maybe we can start with a little background. Where are you from?
John Stagliano I grew up in Chicago. I was born at the end of 51 and went to high school from 65 to 69. I went through puberty right around 1963, right when the sexual revolution was happening. There were all these interesting images starting to come up in our society and on TV. I’ve always felt that that was significant in my development. I was in college during the fall of 1969. I dropped out of college after that for a few semesters. I just barely managed to avoid the draft because I was seventeen at that time. There were a lot of riots on campus and I didn’t get back into school until just after that. Of course you don’t remember any of this, you’re too young. I was around some of the student unrest, but not too much of it. It was an interesting time to go through puberty because of the sexual revolution.
Roger T. Pipe Were you a film major in school?
John Stagliano No, I didn’t even know that Hollywood was in California when I first came out here so it never entered my mind that I could have a career in the entertainment industry. I majored in about six different things in my first two years of college from English to Journalism to Engineering you name it. There was a time when I really wanted to be a baseball player. Then I got into economics. It was a little bit hectic bouncing around like that. By the time I got to my senior year. I had lost interest in economics although I had enough units to complete my major. I had transferred to UCLA as a junior. When I was in my senior year at UCLA I took almost all theater arts classes and modern dance classes. The playwriting classes I took were really interesting.
Roger T. Pipe So you finished school out here at UCLA and did you go right into dancing after school?
John Stagliano At UCLA I was taking modern dance, but at first that was mostly because the girls would wear these little leotards that would creep up into their butts. That would just drive me nuts. There were very few girls in economics classes.
Roger T. Pipe The best reason to change majors is to go where the girls are.
John Stagliano When you’re that age such things are very important. I don’t think I was cut out to have a career in economics though my original plan was to get my PhD in economics and become a professor. I am glad that I didn’t because I have other interests and have probably had a fuller life because I didn’t follow that path.
Roger T. Pipe So what did you do after college?
John Stagliano In addition to the dances classes, I started taking acting classes in 1973. I took acting classes from 73 to 75 and went out on the occasional audition but I was terrible as an actor. I was till trying to write a little bit. I had a motorcycle instead of a car so I was able to work part time. In the fall of 75 I started taking dance classes seriously this time. That was a good time. I remember going to a class in 1976 and there were six girls in the class that I had had sex with. Clearly this was a successful career change. (He laughs) No. That’s not really the whole reason I did it. More or less, I like the physicality of dancing. Early in life I wanted to be a baseball player. By the way, we are watching the Cubs as we do this. I love the Cubs. I did like being physically active. Dance combined artistic expression with physical activity and I liked that. I had also developed an affinity for music, so that tied in as well. These were all things that I didn’t think I had any talent for. I don’t know if it’s my Italian heritage, the fact that some of my grandparents were from Florence but there was an artistic side of me that started to come out when I was in college. I started to do fairly well in modern dance because I liked to create stuff. I had never done anything like that before. In the fall of 75, acting wasn’t going very well. I was putzing around trying to find something to do and I started taking dance classes full time. Within a couple of years, I had had a couple of jobs.
Roger T. Pipe Dancing jobs?
John Stagliano Yes. I got one job in the fall of 77 doing a musical circus. It was a troupe of dancers that went to Central and South America. It was just like a Las Vegas show. It didn’t pay that well, so you didn’t have to be that great a dancer, but I did take the job. I did that and came back to America and took more classes. In January of 79 I answered an ad because I was looking for more dance work. It turned out that the ad was placed by Paul Schnieder who was the boyfriend of Dorothy Stratton from Star 80. By the way, I had a small part in that movie. So anyway, I answered the ad for male strippers at a club called Chippendales. I was in the first show that they put on. All the other guys in that first show were gay. Within a couple of weeks, the gay guys were gone and contest dancers had taken their place. This was the disco era so guys from dance contests ended up being the dancers at the club. Since I had some dance training I could do a more dramatic act. I stayed with the group. That was a significant thing for me because I got to be creative with what I was doing. By the way, Paul Schnieder promoted that first show, was there for about a month before the owner decided to take the show over himself. He kicked Paul out, whether he was justified in doing so or not, I don’t know. About a year later, Paul had some sort of lawsuit going against Chippendales. Also his girlfriend, Dorothy Stratton was dating Peter Bogdonovich and somehow they both ended up dead in a condo in Century City. The rumor is that it wasn’t a murder/suicide, but that they were both killed by the owner of Chippendales. The owner was later indicted for attempted murder of a guy who started a rival dance group. He ended up committing suicide on the night before he was to be sentenced. After he was sentenced, the Government would have had control over his assets, but if he wasn’t sentenced when he died, the family would still have the money. Anyway, I don’t have any sympathy for the owner of Chippendales because he did push Paul Schnieder out. I’m sure that he screwed Paul over in some way. At any rate, I was there for all of that.
Roger T. Pipe How long were you a stripper?
John Stagliano I was a stripper from January of 79 until I started producing porn movies in the summer of 1983.
Roger T. Pipe How did that happen?
John Stagliano At the beginning of 1982 I had just turned 30. I was a male stripper, still putzing around in Hollywood trying to do something creative and I knew some guys in the porn business. Do you mind if we go back a little?
Roger T. Pipe No, go ahead.
John Stagliano I got associated with the porn business in 1973 while I was still at UCLA. Bill Margold had put an ad up at the student center looking for nude models. Mostly he wanted girls, but for some reason he agreed to meet me. He pointed out that he was editing this little porno newspaper. I told him I wanted to be a writer and he had me write a story for him. He paid me a penny a word and I made fourteen dollars and fifty cents for that article. That was my start at creating porno. I wrote a few more stories for him and worked a couple times a year doing some soft-core modeling. Then I would get a girlfriend and she would want me to stop or whatever. There really wasn’t much work then so it wasn’t like I was passing up any real income. The video industry hadn’t hit yet, it was all on film. I did maybe a half dozen films of which I did well in two and bombed in four. With that kind of success ratio, they aren’t going to hire you much. I did some loops. The first time I did any hard core was in San Francisco in 1974. I did fine back then, but I was 22 years old. Performing on camera is difficult. The younger and more virile you are, the easier it is to overcome the mental blocks and distractions. Also in 1974, I took a job doing a live sex show on stage.
Roger T. Pipe Where was this?
John Stagliano This was in Hawaii. Margold got me that job as well. I think I lasted two weeks doing that.
Roger T. Pipe Why so short?
John Stagliano I was doing six shows a night with a hard on where you aren’t supposed to cum. It’s choreographed so the people aren’t supposed to be able to tell if you’re really fucking or not. The girl kind of gives you head covered until you get a hard on. Then you screw her sideways. Sometimes we would put it in and sometimes we wouldn’t. If the Vice Squad was in the audience we would get a tip from the owner or manager. They would tell us not to fuck at all. When Vice wasn’t there it was fine. I remember the local cop, this Hawaiian guy poked his head in and yells “go ahead John fuck her.” Mostly they made their money of Japanese tourists. That was fun for a while, but I just couldn’t handle it.
Roger T. Pipe That’s a lot of shows.
John Stagliano Yeah it was. Back to my porno experiences in the seventies. I had some contacts in the business. Stripping was really fun and creative for me, but after a while I decided I needed to do something else. There was someone in Bill Margold’s building who was publishing these little hard-core magazines on newsprint. They had pictures and stories and went for three bucks in adult bookstores. I was interested in those things and I talked to him. He agreed to consult with me for like fifty bucks an hour on how to make these. I made one myself. During the seventies I was working part time at these marketing research facilities. We did research for banks and savings & loans to help them find new locations. I had to prepare an application. There were photographs of the shopping center where they wanted to locate. I worked on all aspects of those reports, including writing several of them. I was really good at graphically laying that stuff out. Segueing into producing a little porno newspaper where you had to put the pictures and resize them wasn’t too big a leap. This was all done before computers, but I liked doing that sort of thing. I had a head start on producing the porno magazine, plus I had written a few stories for Bill Margold. I just put those skills together and spent about two thousand dollars and was able to print my own little magazine.
Roger T. Pipe How many issues did you do?
John Stagliano I did six issues of that one. I took some of the pictures myself, but most of them were bought from pictures from photographers who had stuff laying around from old layouts.
Roger T. Pipe What was it called?
John Stagliano I did “Heat” one, two and three, another called “Angel” one and two and one called “Hot Slut Orgies.”
Roger T. Pipe If anyone has any of those, they would be collector’s items.
John Stagliano By this time they would be falling apart because they are on newsprint. I have a few of them wrapped in plastic, but I doubt there are many left. I would always put in one main story, my best one for the issue. Each of those six stories has ended up in the current Buttman magazine that I publish now. It was a lot of fun to do and today Buttman Magazine is fun for me. The way it ties in is that the guy who doing the still photography for me back then was also running Pretty Girl International. He was booking me on occasional still photo shoots.
Roger T. Pipe How long did you do that?
John Stagliano I did still layouts in 81, 82 and 83. I had not problem on those. There wasn’t a film crew and I was getting laid regularly as a male stripper. In 1983 video was just starting. Bobby Hollander had shot some stuff on video in 82 and I was quite aware of that. David House was the photographer and he had met Bruce Seven. Bruce had shot a few bondage movies and a girl/girl movie. David wanted to get into producing movies himself. Because he had shot with me and had done the artwork on my magazine, we had a good relationship. We were going to be partners; however it was going to be all my money. He wasn’t making any money running the agency and I was stripping, working for Strip-A-Gram and still working for that market research company when they needed me. I remember in May of 1983, I made a thousand dollars a week for that month. I was working basically three jobs and I saved enough money to finance this first video. It was shot in July of 83 and was called “Bouncing Buns.” We rented Bruce Seven’s house. He was going to be the cameraman for part of the movie and David House was going to be the cameraman for the rest of it. David was shooting the first scene and for some reason, he missed the cumshot. He lost confidence after that and wound up telling me to just pay him for his work rather than be partners. That’s what I did. I paid David and I took the movie. I spent four or five thousand of my money and paid him for casting and as a still photographer. Bruce wound up helping me finish and I gave him ten percent of the gross on that movie I think. Bruce and I become good friends after that.
Roger T. Pipe Was that the first time you had met him?
John Stagliano I had met him before we shot that movie. I remember the day that David too me over to meet Bruce. We went to his condo over in Canyon Country and he showed me this girl/girl movie he had just shot. It was one of the best things I had seen in my life and we hit it off immediately. Bruce and I would just and talk about porn. That was a great area of interest.
Roger T. Pipe You and Bruce shared an interest in the porn that was being shot?
John Stagliano The whole reason you’re here is not because of all this other shit in my life. It’s contributed, but you’re here because since age eleven, I have been looking at pornography. My father had naked women on playing cards which I managed to find in our house. He had a couple of magazines stuffed under the seat of our car once. That meant that every night I was going out to check under the seat of the car to see if there was another one. I started masturbating at age eleven or twelve like any healthy young man. I was consuming whatever pornography I could find which at that time was mostly Pageant magazine that showed pictures of Raquel Welch in a bikini. That was the raciest stuff you could find at the newsstand. There was a newsstand that sold Playboy, but they wouldn’t sell one to me. I did manage to get a copy or two of Playboy here and there. At age sixteen I started taking the train from suburban Chicago to downtown where I could buy magazines at real adult bookstores. We’re talking 1968 here, when I was sixteen. I remember being downtown that summer during the Democratic Convention and seeing the rioters and policeman all over the place. There I was going in and out of the adult bookstores. I looked old enough to pass for twenty one and they didn’t check I.D.s as closely then so I was able to sneak into a couple of the nudie theaters that showed softcore movies. I will never forget seeing a movie called “Ursula the Slut” which is to this day one of the best movies I’ve ever seen. I also remember jerking off in the theater. There was this black guy in front of me. I was sitting there and there was this thing waving around up near his chest. I was thinking what the fuck could that be, but it was his dick. This guy was like Mandingo or Lexington Steele only bigger. It took me years to believe that it was a penis that big. I remember being sixteen and riding my bike into other porno theaters just inside the city limits to see the nudie pictures. I remember “Sandy the Reluctant Nudist.” It was like a nudist magazine only they had cameras there. They showed a little story about how it was the first time for Sandy. I remember that she had a great ass. I was an avid consumer of porno through my college and young adult life. Even when I was a male stripper and getting laid regularly, I would go to porno shops and buy porno books to get off. In 1982 when I was looking for something to do besides flounder around trying to be an actor or a dancer, doing the little porno newspaper was a natural thing. Doing a video was the next natural step. The magazine involved long hours of working alone. I would do the layout, put it together and send it to the printer. I even drove around to stores to try and sell it myself.
Roger T. Pipe How did you go about selling those?
John Stagliano I remember calling Ruben Sturmann’s company “Sovereign News” that would later become GVA. He never took my stuff. A few distributors took my stuff and about half of them paid me. The most fun was going to an adult book store where I would talk to the owner and he would put must stuff up. If they sold them, I got paid. There was a store down in Orange County and there were selling a lot of my stuff. I would go down there and pick up checks for a few hundred dollars at a time. There were several stores in the Bay area that would move a lot of stuff. I was only doing one issue every six weeks so eventually the older issues stopped selling. That coincided with the time when David proposed doing the video. I stopped doing the porno magazine and started thinking about doing this video. In the spring of 83, with Bruce’s help, we made “Bouncing Buns.” It’s pretty bad. There are a few good shots of butts. John Leslie told me years later that is was one of his favorite videos because it starred Stacy Donovan. It has a good butt shot on the cover of Stacy in these little shorts. John said it was great because I got close ups of her butt while she’s walking down the street which nobody would shoot back then. I sold that to VCA and they gave me a royalty deal. I eventually grossed about twenty four thousand dollars one after spending around eight thousand. The original budget of four thousand got bumped way up as soon as found out how expensive it was to edit a movie back then. Eventually Bruce bought his own editing facility and we were partners for a while after that. We were partners for about five movies into 1984. In the summer of 84 Bruce got an offer to make the Ginger movies for Vivid. He was good friends with Ginger. I had other stuff to do on my own, so we split up. Bruce went way up early on and I struggled for many years. I would produce a movie and then try and sell it to somebody. I would produce a movie for eight and try and sell it for twelve or fourteen. I did that for years. I did get VCR which become LBO, to give me 28 thousand for a movie and started working with them a lot. They were very generous early on. I had a good relationship with them for a few years. Bobby Hollander came in and edited a bunch of stuff I shot for them into comps and we became friends. I wasn’t that happy working for them because it was a bit of a nuthouse. Ted Snyder was one of the owners and I remember Ted coming in one day. He had guns and all sorts of stuff. He had this spring loaded knife and he would hit a button. This knife would shoot across the room and smash into the wall. Teddy wound up getting murdered by his wife. That’s another story in the porn business. There are a lot of stories, but you don’t want to hear all of those. In any case, I sold movies to LBO and VCA in 87 and 88. In 1988 I was going to do two more movies for VCA. They were called “Salsa Break” and “Legend of Reggie D.” I had just shot something called “Very Dirty Dancing.” That one was sold to my foreign agent. He paid me for that movie, but then sold the domestic rights to Caballero. I then sold two movies to Caballero for twelve thousand. They had been shot for around eight thousand, so I wasn’t making a lot of money. I hear directors don’t make much more than that now, but in any case, I was on the lower rung of the producing ladder. Caballero got into trouble over “Very Dirty Dancing.” It got nominated for Best Video by the XRCO that year, my first nomination and it won the award for Best Group Sex Scene. However Caballero was being sued by Vestron who owned “Dirty Dancing” over the title. Caballero struck a deal with them where they changed the title to “Very Sexy Valle.” Caballero owed me nine thousand dollars on the two other movies I had sold them. Even though I had sold “Very Dirty Dancing” to my foreign agent, they still said I was responsible for the lawsuit. It was a crock of shit. Two years before that, I had shot a movie called “Daddy’s Darling Daughter” that John Keeler (Jane Waters) shot. I spent nearly thirty thousand on that and made about twenty back before the guy went out of business.
Roger T. Pipe Did you direct that?
John Stagliano I only produced “Daddy’s Darling Daughter.” I helped John Keeler a lot with that one, but he directed it. He was my Director of Photography on a lot of my movies in the 80’s. So anyway, I lost money on “Daddy’s Darling Daughter” and wasn’t getting paid on a lot of other movies. I had Caballero holding nine thousand that eventually Al Bloom paid out of his own pocket plus interest. He didn’t have to do that. He could have gotten me the money faster, but he was a gentleman about it in the end. In the summer of 88, I had Caballero fucking with me, all this money owed and I had just shot these two movies for VCA. They wanted to be able to cut a soft version. It would have been easy to cut a soft version from what I shot. They had Cass Pailey, their editor, take a look at them and he said that they couldn’t cut a soft version easily enough. I wound up cutting the soft versions in a day for those movies. They wanted to pay me twelve thousand and I wanted thirteen five because I had spent a lot more than I thought on those movies. I had these two movies, I’m owed nine thousand from Caballero and I am thinking this is not an easy life. Trying to produce movies and sell them just wasn’t working. I was good friends with Ed DeRue and Linda Courso who had started 4-Play together. They were selling the “Loose Ends” movies that Bruce directed and went on to form Film-Co. Bruce and I had gone to dinner with them many times and had shot some intros to their old loops. I rented Eddie’s house in the late 80’s. They had just sold 4-Play and Linda wasn’t working. I told them I wanted to get out from under all the debt and distribute myself. Linda offered to be my salesperson. There was a guy named Hal who was doing a gay line. Linda put together a deal where she would sell my movie one month and Hal’s the next because you really have to have several movies coming out in order to keep a company going in this business.
Roger T. Pipe Why is that?
John Stagliano They aren’t going to pay you unless they have something they want from you. They have to want the next movie if you expect to get paid. So we put this together in the summer of 88. By the fall of 88 I still had the two movies that were supposed to go to VCA. I didn’t really want them to by my first released for the new company. There were pretty good, but I wanted to hold off. So I shot “Dance Fire” and “Bare Essence” at the same time with Kathleen Gentry in the lead. “Dance Fire” was like a sequel to “Very Dirty Dancing” with the same characters. I still think that “Dance Fire” is one of the best movies I’ve ever done. The acting is pretty bad in some parts, but it has some interesting erotic stuff. “Dance Fire” was my first release and in December of 1988. I shot “Mystic Pieces” which was financed by my foreign agent. He gave me an advance on my other four movies of five thousand each. He bought all the foreign rights for five grand a piece and I was happy. Today that’s nothing. He made a killing, but he was still taking a risk by advancing the money. He financed “Mystic Pieces” because he wanted another movie to sell right away. So with these movies, in January of 89 I started Evil Angel. We had a 10 by 10 booth at the CES show that year. I had five movies in the can and the packaging done for four of them. That was a good start for a young company. A lot of these companies come in with one title and they aren’t ready. I had good credit at that time and had like twelve credit cards that I just maxed out to get them all done. I was like sixty thousand dollars in debt. I used every bit of credit I could get and even borrowed a little bit of money from Ed DeRue. It was only five thousand bucks, but he was hesitant. He said he didn’t like to loan money to friends and today I totally understand that. I managed to pay him back really quickly, but I really needed that money then. In that December of 88 and early 89 period I was really stretched. I was living in that shithole cottage I used to live in. The first movie came out and sold OK, around two thousand pieces. The average price back then was around seventeen dollars. We got some money coming in. I think “Salsa Break” only sold sixteen hundred out the door, but it was starting. As the spring went on, money was coming in to the point where I was able to pay all of my credit card bills and pay Eddie back. That spring I shot a couple more movies, “DeBlonde” and “Rock N Roll Heaven.” I had those releases coming out and was working on this idea of trying to eliminate crew members. I wanted to use fewer and fewer people. On those two movies I used a Betacam. A Betacam has the microphone mounted on it. I had already shot some stuff by myself using those huge camera we used to use. The camera would be on one shoulder and the portapack on the other. I would walk around on the beach with those and talk to the girls from behind the camera. They were just masturbation scenes, but these were the first Buttman character ideas. I put that idea together with another idea I had which was to do a buns fetish tape. I always thought that there were never enough butt shots in movies and I would try and put the camera down. One of the problems was that in the 80’s we were shooting these stupid features with these stupid scripts that weren’t any good most of the time. I did the best I could to make good movies, but most of them were these contrived stories. The thing where I was picking the girls up on the beach and getting them to masturbate had gone well. I thought that combining that character with the buns fetish was a good idea. I could put myself in the movie as an actor and do a couple of cheap movies before the fall when I had my next feature planned. This cheap little thing I wanted to shoot, “The Adventures of Buttman” was to keep my company going. The name Buttman came from Brandy Alexandre. Batman came out the same month that I shot that movie and she said why don’ you call yourself Buttman. I said what the hell, and now I’m stuck with it. So I shot “The Adventures of Buttman” in the summer of 89 and released in September. It had good packaging with a really nice picture and it had a good initial push. In June of 89 I shot Tianna, a month before I shot Buttman. I cast her in the first scene along with Jamie Gillis. He was an unbelievably fortuitous choice for the movie. I knew that he was into butts, but it was still totally lucky to put those two together. I had considered using Brandy Alexandre and putting her with Mike Horner in that first scene. It would have been OK because Brandy’s cute and Mike can perform well, but it wouldn’t have been real like it was for Jamie and Tianna.
Roger T. Pipe Tianna was married to Patrick Collins at the time right?
John Stagliano Yes, that is how I met Patrick. I hired him as my salesman in September of 1989. That’s how he got his start. The next year I financed the first Elegant Angel movie and gave Patrick a quarter of it. At that same time I advanced Bruce some money so that he could start his own line. This was in 1990 and that’s when I started selling both the Elegant Angel and the Bruce Seven lines.
Roger T. Pipe What about the name Evil Angel? There was a movie of that same name with Christy Canyon and Erica Boyer.
John Stagliano Yes, I did that for VCR. I shot that at Bruce Seven’s house. I already had that name since 1982 when I was doing the porno magazine. Back when I was stripping, Evil John was my stage name. There was another guy named John and I did Dracula on stage as well as a chains and leather act. Angel was the stage name of a girl I was dating at the time. I suggested that she use the name Evil Angel. She didn’t want to, but I always remembered that phrase.
Roger T. Pipe In addition to the movie “Evil Angel” you also did a movie called “Gang Bangs” for them.
John Stagliano I did the first gang bangs. That was my idea.
Roger T. Pipe A lot of people reading this might not understand what a huge thing that was.
John Stagliano There were no gang bang movies. There was no concept of a gang bang movie in 1985. There was a scene that Hal Freeman had in “Caught From Behind 1” that had three or four guys with one girl. I had the shots from that scene in one of my magazines.A gang bang was a concept that was in porn in the 70’s, but you almost never saw it. I liked the title because I knew it would sell and I wanted to see four or five guys with one girl. No one was doing that.
Roger T. Pipe I loved that movie and still own a copy today.
John Stagliano You know I actually had “Gang Bangs 2” booked with Elle Rio who was so hot. She was showing a picture around Jim South’s office where she was pulling her ass apart and showing her gaping asshole. Even back then, she was very hot. I also had Candy Evans, Keisha and Ronnie Dickson for “Gang Bangs 2.” Then in 1986, Paul Thomas had been busted, they were hassling people for shooting porno. I decided I wasn’t going to shoot porn for a while and was that a mistake. That would have been great.
Roger T. Pipe Candy Evans in a gang bang? That would have been great. It was pretty impressive that you had Christy Canyon in the first one.
John Stagliano And Erica Boyer and Nina Hartley. There was another girl in that movies named Karen Summers who I shot a few times.
Roger T. Pipe Bruce was in the movie as well, as the lecherous lap dance connoisseur.
John Stagliano Brockton O’Toole was there and my music guy was in it.
Roger T. Pipe Like Gang Bangs, the entire Buttman concept was really different for porn. I was managing a video store then and that reaction to that first Buttman movie was mixed. Some people loved it and others were confused. It was a concept that revolutionized porn and not everyone got it. Were you aware of how groundbreaking it was at the time?
John Stagliano The concept was a combination of a couple of things. I wanted to make a movie where the girl could look right into the camera and be sexy. That was the number one thing I wanted. I had seen still pictures done that way. I had done that stuff following girls around the beach before and I figured having me behind the camera would be the gimmick. Around that same time I talked to a guy who wanted to an amateur movie where the camera is turned on while on its side, you see it move up onto a tripod and people come around from behind the camera to make their porno. The camera is part of the scene and not a removed thing where you’re trying to tell a story and not acknowledge the camera. I always thought that was interesting. The masturbation stuff I shot was done around that same time and I give him credit for fertilizing the idea. I remember I was doing those masturbation things with the camera on one shoulder and the portapack on the other. I set the camera down on the beach to shoot some of the in between stuff. I started talking to the camera and it fell over onto its side. I just kept talking to it that way and that was the birth of the Buttman character. Having edited all of my movies, was significant to my development as a pornographer, I learned a lot about my abilities and my flaws. Seeing the camera turn over like that and realizing I could use it was intriguing. It just so happened that it came about at the same time I wanted to do the buns fetish movie.
Roger T. Pipe Given that it was so different, do you think you could have sold the idea to one of the major companies?
John Stagliano I’m sure someone would have bought it because the sex is good. I probably would have gotten about twelve or thirteen thousand for it and I wouldn’t have been able to shoot it on Betacam. You know, it would have been really difficult to shoot it the way I did because I spent a little more on that one. I shot it on Betacam to get the better quality and I knew I could get that extra money back because I was a manufacturer. I was able to spend more on it. Since it was my company I could do what I wanted. It probably wouldn’t have turned out the same had I done it for someone else.
Roger T. Pipe Times have changed, but the original Buttman wasn’t an anal movie.
John Stagliano Not at all, it was a butt movie. There was really only the “Caught From Behind” line that was devoted to anal back then. Bruce did “Loose Ends” but anal wasn’t big until the mid to late 90’s.
Roger T. Pipe Even in “Gang Bangs”, I don’t remember an anal scene.
John Stagliano The first one I did probably doesn’t have an anal scene in it. I believe Peter North licks Nina Hartley’s butt and there are a lot of great butt shots on stage, but it’s not an anal movie.
Roger T. Pipe Now if you tried to shoot a gang bang without anal there would riots.
John Stagliano I had two scenes with five guys, one with four and one with three. The two five guy scenes were both shot in the pool hall biker bar. Christy Canyon was supposed to spit on some guy’s face and it just barely dribbled over her lip. It was pretty stupid.
Roger T. Pipe I have to say though, that scene probably got me through college.
John Stagliano The Christy Canyon scene with five guys?
Roger T. Pipe I watched it so much the tape nearly wore out. Christy was the first porn girl I ever liked and that’s got to be one of her best scenes ever.
John Stagliano She was so sexy and only eighteen back then.
Roger T. Pipe Where were we? Evil Angel had a few releases; you had just put out Buttman and hired Patrick Collins.
John Stagliano We ended up having Bruce direct some girl/girl movies that Patrick owned a piece of. Those were the first Elegant Angel movies. The first one was “Ghostlusters” and then “Snatched to the Future” and “Where the Girls Sweat.” We shot that in Seymore Butts’ gym where I would later shoot “Buttman’s Ultimate Workout.”
Roger T. Pipe How soon after the first Buttman movie did you release another?
John Stagliano I did “Bend Over Babes” that was half a comp and the next real Buttman movie, “Buttman Goes to Rio” didn’t come out for another six months.
Roger T. Pipe Why so long?
John Stagliano I was shooting “Shadow Dancers” one and two and they took forever to edit. I was editing my own movies, running my own company and still trying to make movies. It was hard to squeeze stuff in.
Roger T. Pipe Do you still edit all of your movies?
John Stagliano I did them all until 1999 when I hired another editor. Last year I went back and edited almost all of my own stuff again and I won best gonzo director from AVN. I think the two go hand in hand.
Roger T. Pipe The Shadow Dancers movies had Sean Michaels in some great scenes, one with Tianna.
John Stagliano That was in part two. The first part ends with Sean and three girls.
Roger T. Pipe Interracial scenes like that were far less common back then.
John Stagliano At that time interracial was considered a fetish. I did some interracial movies in the late 80’s with Ray Victory and Jack Baker. They were for VCA, one was called the Godmother. I had my friend Delores as the lead in that one. She is this little four foot eleven Italian woman character actress. Through the whole movie, you see over her shoulder. You find out at the end of the movie that she is this crazy street woman. It was one of my more brilliant scripts I thought.
Roger T. Pipe You were doing pretty much everything for Evil Angel, shooting and running the company.
John Stagliano I still do all of that stuff. The only thing I don’t do now is star in the movies. Even then, I was careful to put myself in certain scenes. I wasn’t a top performer even then.
Roger T. Pipe After that first movie, the Buttman character really seemed to take off.
John Stagliano Yeah it did. I should have done it more often. I did the Rio thing just for fun. The Rio movies sell, but just a little less than the other Buttman movies. I just love to go to Brazil and I have a lot of fans there who love the stuff I do there. The breakout movie for me was Ultimate Workout. It won so many awards, including the Best Group Sex Scene which you can’t see any more because Alexandria Quinn was only 17. That was the first time I shot Rocco, it was the first time Zara Whites worked. I had five main sex scenes and that little throw in one in the alley with Patricia Kennedy and TT Boy where he wasn’t even supposed to cum. TT Boy was great for me in that one. He had already shot two scenes that day. I had fun with that whole beginning where I’m running through the alley. There are no edits from the time I open the door to the gym and when they pull me out from under the massage table. It’s seven minutes without an edit. It’s seven minutes without an edit and I just love that bit of footage. We had to coordinate that with Seymore and TT and Randy Spears. That is one of the best things I’ve ever shot.
Roger T. Pipe It’s really a shame that the Alex Quinn scene had to be pulled. That had to be a shocking revelation to find out she was under age.
John Stagliano It really was. It was a hot scene, but what was so significant about that movie was working with Rocco. I was in this nice room with natural light. The windows were all on one side and the light was diffused and pretty so I didn’t have to worry about the lighting. He did the sex and I just followed him. We worked together really well. The Zara Whites scene was a lot more stylized and by today’s standards it’s a lot more mediocre. At that time, it was really good.
Roger T. Pipe And she is just so beautiful.
John Stagliano That’s another factor, she was so pretty and wholesome. She was also fun to shoot. I put that movie on just a few months ago and she still turns me on.
Roger T. Pipe You mentioned “Mystic Pieces” a little while ago. I want to talk about that for a bit. It’s a great feature, great script, great sex, just an amazing piece of work. And it had Tori Welles.
John Stagliano Tori Welles, yes. It was shot during her first month in the business. She gave a great scene.
Roger T. Pipe That is one of the few features from that time with a great script and great sex.
John Stagliano Should I put that movie on DVD?
Roger T. Pipe Hell yes and do a full commentary because there so much going on there.
John Stagliano You think I should do that one before some of the other early movies? I have two movies that sold really well in the pre-Buttman days, “Dance Fire” and “Mystic Pieces.”
Roger T. Pipe I’d go with “Mystic Pieces” it really is a classic.
John Stagliano Can I get you to write to box copy for the DVD?
Roger T. Pipe Sure. I think that is one of the top five adult features of all time.
John Stagliano It didn’t get nominated for any awards from AVN.
Roger T. Pipe That’s shocking. The sex was so good, even by today’s standards, its way ahead of feature sex. It came out in 1989 right?
John Stagliano Yes, 89.
Roger T. Pipe Right in the middle of that vast porn wasteland, where everything was bad Cinderella or Video Exclusives would be features. Movies were so horrible then. They couldn’t quite abandon the idea that every porn had to be scripted, even if it was horribly done.
John Stagliano Yes, and it was important that there had to be a story. What Buttman gave me is the idea that scenes could be independent. I was throwing away crew members as we went. I had the Betacam with the microphone hooked onto it so I didn’t need a boom guy. I used to hook a monitor up to the camera so someone could check the shots, which is what everyone did in the 80’s. I figured I’m looking through the viewfinder and I edit the movies. I know what I’ve got. I’m experienced enough to know when I have the shot and when I don’t. I didn’t need someone to check my focus because I was really good at it. It was so much faster with nobody around and no distractions. Eventually I even lost the still photographer. What I get is intimacy. When I’m in a room with a couple, especially with Rocco, and there are no distractions, there is real intimacy. I know Brandy Alexandre used to say she got off performing for the crew, but that wasn’t what Buttman was about. It was less about putting on a show and more about fucking the other person. To get back to what we were talking about, I decided that the more important thing was to shoot the best sex scene possible with this beautiful girl. If you’re going to try to manipulate her character to fit into some stupid story, then you’re not going to get the best sex scene. You’re not going to get the best tease or the best wardrobe and the best build up. It’s much easier to shoot only one scene in a day and be totally into the scene. In the 80’s the formula was much different. You have to shoot the whole thing in one day or two. You can shoot five sex scenes in a day. I shot ten sex scenes in a day.
Roger T. Pipe When was this?
John Stagliano I hired out as a cameraman when I was trying to raise the money to start Evil Angel. This would have been in 1988. I hired out for Video Exclusives which is now Leisure Time. I shot ten sex scenes in one day. This was not a little camera either. It wasn’t quite as heavy as a Betacam, but it was one of those big industrial cameras. That’s a stupid formula for shoot sex. You’re worried about getting it over with and you will get moments of great sexy, but you are handicapping yourself. When I have one scene to shoot I can take my time with the tease and when the sex starts, it’s all that matters. We aren’t worried about anything else. That is what Buttman became, no scripts, just loosely tying the scenes together for fun and shooting the best sex we could. Keeping in mind that there was a lot of story-tease at the beginning of the scene. People who say that gonzo has no story aren’t looking at my movies. They aren’t looking at what I slaved over editing the beginnings of these scenes. I try to build up anticipation and eroticism to start a scene. I’ve shot a few Buttman scenes where I’m just talking to the girl and then the starts start, but most of my Buttman scenes start outside, or there is something weird going on. That is a story. It’s not a conventional story, it’s not people saying lines from a script, but it is a story. To me, it’s far better because it’s more natural and spontaneous. It’s also sexier by my standards.
Roger T. Pipe That’s something that always bothered me about what the industry magazines call gonzo. Buttman may not be a scripted feature, but there is a story. The scenes are all set up with some element of tease and something to make us want to watch. Few people shoot that kind of gonzo. You do, Seymore does, or has in the past. There is a reason to have sex and with your stuff, it didn’t always happen right away. We might see a girl at the start of the movie, but it might take two hours of tease to finally get to her. That kind of build up just isn’t done very often.
John Stagliano I always ran into the same problem when I would be writing a script and two people come into a room. Everyone knows that when two people come into a room in a porno, they are going to have sex. Why? No. They can have sex at the end of the movie, but we’re going to have tease.
Roger T. Pipe Gonzo has been bastardized. What Anabolic shoots, great as it may be, isn’t gonzo. It’s two or three people on a couch who have sex.
John Stagliano It’s wall to wall sex. Gonzo is an art form and is more sophisticated than that. There are so many things you can do when you know the camera is there. You can do the interview style like Ed Powers does, you can do what Anabolic does, and you can do what I do. There are variations on what I do, some with weird characters that people come up with.
Roger T. Pipe Even in some of you features, “Face Dance” for example, there is a lot of gonzo feel to it.
John Stagliano I did that on purpose. I wanted that feel.
Roger T. Pipe We need to come up with a better name for wall to wall tapes than gonzo. It’s unfair to real gonzo movies.
John Stagliano I’ll let you argue with the powers that be on that one. I have already tried for years.
Roger T. Pipe Another thing that Buttman did for porn was it changed it from simply voyeuristic to a more vicarious and personal feel. Before Buttman, we watched people have sex and that was great to look at, but it wasn’t as personal.
John Stagliano The audience was able to come along on the adventure with me. That really came from those acting classes I took in the early 70’s. There was a sign on the wall that said “no acting please.” It was about how to use your instrument, your person and convey the appropriate emotions for that scene. How do I make it real? I take that into a scene that I’m directing. How do I make it real? When I started going Buttman and could direct from behind the camera, we started improvising. When we wrote scripts, the lines sounded like shit anyway. When I started doing Buttman and I could direct from behind the camera, and we can improvise, then I could change things up. I could say something on the fly and the girl isn’t prepared with a set answer. She just has to talk and that’s more real. The great thing about Buttman is that I am an actor in the movie and directing in a subtle way. I am moving it towards that goal of having spontaneous responses.
Roger T. Pipe How many Buttman movies have you shot?
John Stagliano I have no idea. Fifty?
Roger T. Pipe When you were showing me around earlier, we were talking about the fire that nearly burned your house down. That was in a couple of your movies.
John Stagliano It was at the beginning of “Wet Dream.” I should have been in “Buttman’s Inferno” but I didn’t want to cut any sex out of that movie. We carried it over so you could see what happened, which of course was that the house is still standing.
Roger T. Pipe I was still managing stores then and we had to keep a log which Buttman movies came in what order so people could follow them.
John Stagliano We let them follow the adventure.
Roger T. Pipe Another thing that happened quite often was that customers would come in and believe one hundred percent that these set ups were real. That you were just really picking up girls on the beach.
John Stagliano Really?
Roger T. Pipe It happened a lot. They would argue with us about it.
John Stagliano (He laughs) That is the greatest compliment that I can get. When people ask me that question, it means that I made all the right choices in directing and editing. It sometimes takes a lot of editing because the improvised scenes with these girls can take a while. I’ll say “let’s go have sex” and they say OK. I have to tell them no, it’s not real. What if I were really a pervert with a camera? By the time I edit it, you see maybe a quarter of what was shot. I shoot it on the fly and edit it without dissolves. There is a lot more skill in doing that than people think. People look at my movies and think that it looks really easy. You see them shoot the stuff and then they leave everything in. It’s boring.
Roger T. Pipe Many people have tried, but no one has figured it out.
John Stagliano That’s why I appreciate talking to you Roger. You’re someone who appreciates what I did, but to tell you the truth, I’m over that. My ego has been built up enough, let’s move on to the next phase of my life.
Roger T. Pipe If you had to pick a favorite feature that you’ve done, what would it be?
John Stagliano I consider “Buttman Confidential” a feature, so that’s my favorite. In a more traditional vein, “Buda” is probably the best feature I’ve done. Hopefully this next one will be far superior to “Buda.” I feel that every time I do a feature, I have grown so much. I look at “Wild Goose Chase” and there are good scenes and a good overall concept. Then I also see the weak points, things I would shoot differently today. “Face Dance” was a step up from that. “Buda” was several steps above that. In between them was “Buttman in the Crack” which was fun, but not nearly as good as “Buda.”
Roger T. Pipe I almost forgot about “Wild Goose Chase.”
John Stagliano We’re doing that on DVD now so it’s fresh in my mind. It was named Best Film.
Roger T. Pipe That was a great movie and it holds up well. In fact, the only thing that doesn’t work, and everyone did it at the time, was the inter-cutting the scenes.
John Stagliano Yeah, the Jeanna Fine scene with the Joey and the wrestlers scene.
Roger T. Pipe The practice never worked for me. As a fan at home, jerking off, to be watching Jeanna do that incredible scene, then to cut away.
John Stagliano You know I hate inter-cutting. We used to do that in the 80’s. Never any more. I hate it.
Roger T. Pipe The worse stuff for that were the old Ginger Lynn movies. They would always cut away from some hot Ginger scene, to Sharon Mitchell. That is one thing that has really changed over the years.
John Stagliano What you are talking about is part of what I call the technology of making porn movies. It wasn’t obvious to us in the 80’s that we were developing a technology, but we were. We were saying, let’s intercut because this could get boring after a while, but we were wrong. The best scenes are the ones where you get into the people and you go on the ride with them. It’s what Rocco says he does with girls, he take them on a trip. He wants to go to stronger and stronger levels of sex. You don’t want to stop that, you want to stay right there with them. This is just one thing that has evolved. The gonzo thing and making movies more natural, throat fucking, hard anal, gaping anal, all of these are things that we have developed as porn as an art form.
Roger T. Pipe Even intercutting two good scenes was horrible because it ruins the natural rhythm of the scenes.
John Stagliano The problem is that sometimes in a script, thing will happen simultaneously. In “Wild Goose Chase” the idea of the Jeanna Fine scene is that she is fucking these two cops who really want to arrest Joey Silvera. He has to finish fucking and escape before they catch him. I was trying to build tension. It is really hard to make two scenes fit together.
Roger T. Pipe You have had a long relationship with Rocco Siffredi. How did that develop?
John Stagliano Rocco came to America for the first time in the spring of 1990. Patty Rhodes who was a line producer for Fred Lincoln, had worked with Rocco in Europe. She brought him around to get him some work. People weren’t hiring him right away because he was a new guy. People just don’t hire new guys. Patty brought him over and he doesn’t speak English very well. I was trying to figure out how to put him in a feature. He showed me these pictures that he had done and I was wondering what he was doing in porn. They were these great looking fashion shots that he had done. Then he turned to a picture of himself fucking this girl with that huge dick and I just said “OK, you’re hired.” I didn’t have to think twice, but it was still a risk. Rocco will look back on that and know that these people were idiots for not hiring him. That first trip was difficult for him. He didn’t work until the very end of that trip. After I worked with him and before I met Zara White, the two of them worked together for Suze Randall on a still shoot for Club. I talked to Zara and she said that she would work with Rocco and only him. Here was this beautiful girl and wanted a huge amount of money, but I wasn’t going to pass it up. He was really disappointed with that first trip. We just hit it off well. I could tell that Rocco carried himself differently than other actors. He knew he was good and didn’t have to prove it. I also liked the fact that he had ambition and was going to do something better with his life. Compared to just about any other porn guy, Rocco produces very well. When you look at the scope of “Rocco Never Dies” and see how big it is, it’s very impressive. His new movie “Ass Collector” is even more ambitious. He’s got helicopter shots and all sorts of great stuff.
Roger T. Pipe When is that due out?
John Stagliano It will be out in September and the trailer is going on his next release. Every once in a while, I look back and see how fortuitous my relationship with Rocco has been in. I haven’t won many awards for things that I didn’t shoot with Rocco.
Roger T. Pipe In general, the people who have worked with you and for you, have stuck around for a long time. Rocco, John Leslie, Joey Silvera etc. It seems as if people who come under the Evil Angel banner tend to stay with you. That’s very rare in this business.
John Stagliano I have been fortunate in my success. I can tell a good movie when I see one, probably better than most people in this industry. I’ve shot them, I’ve edited them and I know what works. I failed with Zupko, but I know porn and I I’ve been quite fortunate. Patrick Collins has a very nasty mind and he’s not a bad pornographer. I had a relationship with him for a long time, although that eventually dissolved because he wanted to be his own boss. John Leslie was at the top of his game when we started working together. I met him on his first feature in 1975 and talked to him occasionally through the years. I liked his VCA stuff which was obviously very good. He was making some great features for them in the late 80’s. We didn’t start a relationship until 1994. He had a script for a movie called “Dog Walker.” VCA didn’t want to shoot it because it was too rough.
Roger T. Pipe Their stuff was pretty tame.
John Stagliano It still is. They wanted to make their movies and have no legal problems, but they still got busted. I was lucky that I got John. Joey and I hit it off when I would hire him as an actor. There was an understanding of what was necessary to make a scene comfortable and produce good sex. Long before he started directing I would walk him into the warehouse and say “see that empty space there Joey? That’s waiting for you.” Then he made his first movie and it wasn’t that good. He was friends with Michael Rubenstein and went with him for a while. By his eighth movie or so I was talking to Joey about selling his stuff. It’s important for me to have long term relationships, but the main reason these guys stay is because they are making so much more money than anyone else has ever offered them. I am lucky that I can offer them so much more. I don’t own Rocco’s movies. They own their own movies. When I was producing movies, if someone could have offered this deal to me, it’s what would have worked. What didn’t work for me was selling a movie outright for twelve thousand dollars or even twenty thousand and then walking away. Then it’s their responsibility to do the box and make sure it’s selling, but it’s my identity. Why would they care to build it up when their company and their ego is more important? What has worked for me is to try and keep my ego down and let them be the stars. This is your movie John Leslie. You make it good and it will sell. You make it bad and it won’t sell and you will make a lot less money. Joey is now shooting transsexual tapes and this was a big risk on our part to start doing that. We knew it was different, but he took that chance. If someone was paying him five thousand dollars to shoot a transsexual movie, they wouldn’t be nearly as good. It is so hard to deal with people who are flying on female hormones. These are hard to put together. He did all that work and is has paid off for him. Because I have managed to keep just good people at the company, we have managed to keep our reputation up and therefore our sales stay up and they don’t have any incentive to leave. I don’t have any contracts with these people. They are all free to leave any time they want and take their whole catalog with them. However, Jules Jordan has to wait a year because I told him that he had to give me a year.
Roger T. Pipe The only short term relationship I can recall was the one you had with Thomas Zupko.
John Stagliano I did make the deal with Zupko. I liked that first movie a lot. Maybe it was just really good pot that I was smoking when I watched it.
Roger T. Pipe This is “Anal Ball” we’re talking about?
John Stagliano Yes. “Anal Ball” had that first scene and it was different. It had really good music and I love the editing in that movie. He had layers of stuff going on, two or three sounds going at once. I really liked it. Some of the sex was good. Some of it was pretty lame, there are a couple of pretty bad ones. But there are also a couple of really good ones. I thought that if he could do that all the time, then I wanted to sell his stuff. Unfortunately his basic feeling toward women and his approach to sex is so antithetical to what I like that the second movie came in and totally turned me off.
Roger T. Pipe You didn’t release that one right?
John Stagliano Not “Pussy Crimes” no.
Roger T. Pipe He came into the industry and had you singing his praises, which is about the best thing that can happen for a new director. Then just as quickly, he was out on his own.
John Stagliano It just didn’t work.
Roger T. Pipe I didn’t like “Anal Ball” and found it really anti-sex.
John Stagliano What about the movie he was nominated for last year?
Roger T. Pipe “In the Days of Whore?”
John Stagliano Yeah, what did you think of that?
Roger T. Pipe I thought it was really good. I don’t think it was his best movie. “The Abyss” had better sex, but the story and style of Days of Whore was really good. I felt the same way about his big movie this year “Shades of Hades.” It’s beautiful, but I just didn’t get the sex.
John Stagliano The feeling I get from him is that he’s like an adolescent boy who knows he is never going to get laid. In the back of his mind, he hates girls and feels insecure around them. All of his energy is redirected into this weird shit that he does to them. I hate to be so crass, but that is the feeling that I get from him.
Roger T. Pipe But that kind of porn has become a trend.
John Stagliano Yes it has.
Roger T. Pipe I spoke with Jules about that Aurora Snow scene he shot. It’s a beautiful scene with totally hot sex and then he does the internal anal cumshot that gets expelled and eaten. To me, that just didn’t fit.
John Stagliano I didn’t like that either.
Roger T. Pipe It’s not anything that I would ever want to do with anyone I would have sex with.
John Stagliano But there are people who would do that and would love it. It’s a small percentage, but I’ve met them.
Roger T. Pipe That kind of porn just doesn’t work for me. I had a good relationship with my mother, I love my wife, and I like women.
John Stagliano Then what the fuck are you doing in the porn business?
Roger T. Pipe I guess I’m just a romantic. What’s wrong with taking a beautiful woman, fucking her up the ass and then cumming all over her face?
John Stagliano I agree with you and I think I’m fairly well adjusted as well. That being said, there is a place in porn for all that weird shit. I like watching a lot of it. I have to be pretty fucked up to watch it, but I like it.
Roger T. Pipe What about rape scenes?
John Stagliano I can like a rape scene if I really like the girl and it’s done well. The guy is really important in a scene like that, their attitude towards sex. If it’s a sexual thing, I am going to like it a lot. If it’s just a degradation thing then I’m not going to like it. I’m all about the sex and pretty girls and appreciating them. I’m not about the psychology as much as other people are. That’s a downfall in me, in that I’m a late comer to the throat fucking and the hard sex. I’m not someone who tried to push that. Gaping assholes happened in my movies, but I never went out and looked for it until Assman and these other guys did it in their movies. I saw the stuff Max Hardcore was doing, but I wasn’t sure I wanted to ask the girls to do it because they might not like it. The fact of the matter is, some girls are going to like doing that stuff and some girls aren’t. You have to get the right girl for a scene like that. The biggest problem that I have is trying to figure out what has made me successful and figure out what Rocco has that I don’t have. I’m not sure that I can shoot some of the stuff that he does because I’m just not into it the same way that he is.
Roger T. Pipe And that will always show in the final product. What makes what you do so good is that you appreciate female bodies, so when you shoot these long tease sequences, it comes across. If someone who was more into gaping assholes than nice butts were to shoot what you do, it would be phony. It would be just as hard for someone who didn’t like rough sex to shoot what Max does.
John Stagliano It would be impossible to do it well.
Roger T. Pipe You shoot what you love and you’ve found a large audience who likes what you shoot.
John Stagliano People who aren’t into the rape scenes and more into pretty girls walking down the street. That makes my dick hard and I want to see more of it.
Roger T. Pipe That’s another thing that you bring across, the mainstream sexual impulse. If we were doing this interview at the beach or the mall, girls would walk by and we would see her. That is what kicks off most sexual fantasies. It’s not some girl sitting on a couch already naked that jump starts these thoughts.
John Stagliano What drives me nuts about porn is just what you said right there. Exactly that and it doesn’t get translated into video very often. Anabolic for example, drives me nuts. I love their hard sex, but their scenes all start with the girl sitting down. I don’t know what she looks like and I am not at all intrigued by the girl. She has not done a single sexy thing and all of a sudden there is a dick in her mouth. Can I just get a little turned on by her body first? Could she talk a little bit and let me see her legs and her ass. The more the better to tell you the truth because when the dicks come out, I usually hit fast forward. I am into seeing girls and not as into seeing the sex as I used to be. Maybe it’s because I have HIV and I’m not as sexual as I used to be. On the other hand, I have always been this way. I have always loved watching girls be sexy.
Roger T. Pipe I’m the same way. Growing up in California, girls in bikinis have triggered nearly all of my fantasies from the time I was nine.
John Stagliano I used to go down to the Newport Beach surf competitions in the 80’s and took reams of pictures of butts. Orange County girls may be the prettiest in the world.
Roger T. Pipe You did a movie called “Surfside Sex” that had some great girls in bikini stuff and one of the best facial pop shots I have ever seen.
John Stagliano Is that the one that happened at sunset?
Roger T. Pipe Yes, Peter North pulls out and shoots up onto Aja’s face and it is an image burned forever into my brain.
John Stagliano That same house was used for Bar | | |
